First off, I think we need to keep it clean here. I too get frusterated with the following: Reviewers who seem to put little effort and time into it. However, these are usually new members who either learn how to better review or receive enough low scores that they only review other members with low scores. Also with: people who give my reviews that I sometimes put in over an hour's work on a low score because they can't hanndle criticism in its most constructive form. I usually do grammar, especially if it's pretty sound in style, structure, etc. I usualy focus on the style and things though. I will say that keep in my mind that many of the low-effort reviewers may not know that they aren't doing a great job. Perhaps the first time you encounter someone with a bad review, rate them lower and positively tell them why. If you get that same person again with a half-done review, report them (through the proper, private channels, of course). Cussing random people out on a public forum won't help matters. It's caused escalation and people getting kicked off over this same issue before. Review Fuse is about igniting creativity, so please let's keep it like that.
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| Starter | hannabanana14 |
| Updated | Aug 21, 2012 5:26 PM |
| Replies | 69 |
| Unseen | 69 |
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Tags: bad,Book,Help,Reviews
HannaBanana: Here's looking at you kid. I saw your review stats and yes, you are on the short end of the straw, which on this site is not a good place to be. If you wish, I will review, in proper order, anything you wish to submit for me, or anything already posted by you. You will need to tag the chapters (or excerpts) with their name, your name, and my name here on Cummunity so I will go looking for them. Not saying I am expert at reviewing but I do have something to offer. And, here's the best part: you needn't review anything of mine, you have done enough and have earned your plea for help 70 time seven over. How's that for fairness? Who loves ya Baby? (just kidding, that's a line from the old rotten Kojak TV series).
Cimarron
I don't think insulting anyone will help but I did have someone argue with me when I told them that I felt their review wasnt helpful. It was once again a chapter review and all they did was tell me that they were confused due to lack of information....for a chapter 7 submission. I always put a disclaimer at the top of my submissions that since it is a chapter review you can give me grammar and structure help versus critique on the plot. I appreciate all kinds of help, but when you only complain and dont offer help then I am going to tell you that your review was less than helpful and you really need to work on your critiquing skills. We are after all supposed to let a reviewer know if their review was not helpful and they too need to work on that skill. I have given a lot of reviews and I think in all that time I gave a total of 2 reviews with less than 5 stars on any part.
If anyone would like a free review without having to do so in return I am more than happy to offer my services.
I've been on this site for a good while now (I've done 80 reviews and received 128 - membership is nice :) ) and I think the system generally works.
This is from the FAQ:
"However, those being reviewed will be allowed to rate how helpful your review was. We use the review rating as part of the peer matching process. Those who give good reviews are matched with peers who also give reviews."
I find it is generally, but not totally true. I have a "Great" rating but still get one line reviews.
Of the 3 reviews I get from each submission, I find on average one is poor, one is average to good and one is very good to great. It's not 100%, but it is pretty consistent. So to feel I've really gotten the most out of the reviews for my chapter, I usually need to submit at least 2 times (6 reviews), sometimes 3 if I make changes.
For the reviews I give, I tend to put a lot of time into them and try to point out any issues I see, mechanical, plot etc. Some people love it, I've got great responses from RickVilante for example, some people hate it, giving me low scores for my honesty. C'est la vie.
So basically what I'm saying is yes, you're going to get some bad reviews, but as long as you keep giving good reviews, you'll get to the point where at least most of the reviews you get in return will be above average. :)
Medi- I value your and Rick's opinions to heart. The points don't matter as long as you get well thought of feedback from other writers like yourself. The problem is getting that well thought of feedback. Hence premium membership has its advantages.
I'm a big stickler on language. If a writer violates certain rules, I say something; however, I do give praise to him or her when the violation of the rules results in powerful prose. It becomes a question of style at that point between colleagues.
If someone doesn't like the reviews I give, that's fine if they want to give low scores. The prose either stands on its own or not. If writers cannot deal with the weaknesses of their own work and need to argue their score, they are not writers--only hacks.
I was humbled greatly by an Eighth grader who gave me an excellent review on one of my pieces. It was honest and spot on. Even though there is a large difference in age and education, the language and rules were the same. That goes beyond age, sex, ethnicity, education, etc... I love to write. :)
yea it sucks. i just got my outline reviewed, and all i got was negative feedback. i came here for INSPIRATION, how to get my story better and improved, not to be told it's a stupid idea and i should simple stop writing it :/ very discouraging. my story is raw and unfinished, and i just was asking someone to help me make it good a believable
I got bad comments for some parts for my story, I mean really, how much dialog can you have in a letter.
If you believe the reviewer did not make an adequate review of your work, then score their review appropriately in response and (politely) tell them why you're giving them a negative score. If they didn't take in the context of your work, then tell them. If they were rude or condescending, then tell them. The system can only filter out bad reviewers if people tell it who the bad reviewers are. Reviewers CAN go back and re-review a work to earn a higher feedback score from the author (I know this because I did it recently).
Coming to the forums and ranting about it is one thing, but remember, by grading your reviewers accordingly, you're actually doing something about their crap reviews.
Don't be discouraged because somebody doesn't like your stuff. You can't and won't please everybody. Honestly, only about three people here like my writing and that's out of a TON of others out there but it's not stopping me from doing my thing. Just keep writing and don't let a few people out of the billions on this planet stop you.
Early on when I first joined review fuse, I ended up having someone review my work over and over, and they were a really terrible reviewer. This person posted all "That was really good" or "I don't see anything that I can critique." That person ended up being the nicest person I've ever worked with. I gave her bad review scores and let her know what I was looking for in a reviewer, and she turned into someone really wonderful to work with. To those of you new to reviewing, in my opinion, these are the points to remember:
1. My goal is to get published. While giving me pats on the back are good for my ego, ultimately, they don't help me edit my work.
2. If you can't find anything to critique, or being critical just isn't your thing, inline reactions are really helpful. If you're wondering something at a point in the story, say so. If you think something is funny or sad, say that. Maybe that's the reaction I wanted you to have, and that's helpful. But what if I didn't want you to be sad at that point or wonder that? Then I know exactly what effect my story is having.
3. I often post a little blurb about how I do reviews in the beginning of the person's work so that they know I tend to be blunt. That way, they know it's me, not them.
4. All that being said, I always find something positive to say about the story. Something specific and tangible.
5. If the work needs a ton of work, rather than driving yourself crazy and critiquing everything, pick one specific area and focus on that. After all, if you have too much to criticize, you'll frustrate both you and your writer.
So, that's my 2 cents on all this. I appreciate anyone who really takes time out to read what I've written and give me the best review possible. When I get a "bad" review, I don't review my reviewer right away. I purposely let every review sit at least overnight to make sure that I'm not taking it personally. After all, if my work was perfect, I wouldn't need all of your help!
Early on when I first joined review fuse, I ended up having someone review my work over and over, and they were a really terrible reviewer. This person posted all "That was really good" or "I don't see anything that I can critique." That person ended up being the nicest person I've ever worked with. I gave her bad review scores and let her know what I was looking for in a reviewer, and she turned into someone really wonderful to work with. To those of you new to reviewing, in my opinion, these are the points to remember:
1. My goal is to get published. While giving me pats on the back are good for my ego, ultimately, they don't help me edit my work.
2. If you can't find anything to critique, or being critical just isn't your thing, inline reactions are really helpful. If you're wondering something at a point in the story, say so. If you think something is funny or sad, say that. Maybe that's the reaction I wanted you to have, and that's helpful. But what if I didn't want you to be sad at that point or wonder that? Then I know exactly what effect my story is having.
3. I often post a little blurb about how I do reviews in the beginning of the person's work so that they know I tend to be blunt. That way, they know it's me, not them.
4. All that being said, I always find something positive to say about the story. Something specific and tangible.
5. If the work needs a ton of work, rather than driving yourself crazy and critiquing everything, pick one specific area and focus on that. After all, if you have too much to criticize, you'll frustrate both you and your writer.
So, that's my 2 cents on all this. I appreciate anyone who really takes time out to read what I've written and give me the best review possible. When I get a "bad" review, I don't review my reviewer right away. I purposely let every review sit at least overnight to make sure that I'm not taking it personally. After all, if my work was perfect, I wouldn't need all of your help!
Early on when I first joined review fuse, I ended up having someone review my work over and over, and they were a really terrible reviewer. This person posted all "That was really good" or "I don't see anything that I can critique." That person ended up being the nicest person I've ever worked with. I gave her bad review scores and let her know what I was looking for in a reviewer, and she turned into someone really wonderful to work with. To those of you new to reviewing, in my opinion, these are the points to remember:
1. My goal is to get published. While giving me pats on the back are good for my ego, ultimately, they don't help me edit my work.
2. If you can't find anything to critique, or being critical just isn't your thing, inline reactions are really helpful. If you're wondering something at a point in the story, say so. If you think something is funny or sad, say that. Maybe that's the reaction I wanted you to have, and that's helpful. But what if I didn't want you to be sad at that point or wonder that? Then I know exactly what effect my story is having.
3. I often post a little blurb about how I do reviews in the beginning of the person's work so that they know I tend to be blunt. That way, they know it's me, not them.
4. All that being said, I always find something positive to say about the story. Something specific and tangible.
5. If the work needs a ton of work, rather than driving yourself crazy and critiquing everything, pick one specific area and focus on that. After all, if you have too much to criticize, you'll frustrate both you and your writer.
So, that's my 2 cents on all this. I appreciate anyone who really takes time out to read what I've written and give me the best review possible. When I get a "bad" review, I don't review my reviewer right away. I purposely let every review sit at least overnight to make sure that I'm not taking it personally. After all, if my work was perfect, I wouldn't need all of your help!
Great advise from awemuse!
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I would add 2 things:
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1. Don't let your personal dislike of a genre or style get in the way of reviewing a work. I've had more then a few reviewers say they hate present tense or vampire stories (or both) and mark my chapters down because of it. Then they proceed to lecture me on how cliche vampires are or how no publisher will print something in first person... I'm not here for a lecture on these things - it's the genre and style I've chosen and what I want from you as a reviewer has nothing to do with that - I want to know if the chapter flows, if it makes sense, if the characters comes off as to stupid or to whiny, if their are plot holes etc etc.
It's okay to mention it that you dno't like vampires or present tense, but you're just waisting your time and the reviewers time when you fixate on something that has nothing to do with what the person actually wrote.
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2. This is for chapter reviews that aren't the first chapter - you have to realize you are stepping into the middle of a story and will probably have missed many things such as descriptions of rooms or people. Story points that let you know what's going on, relationships, and many other things.
The good reviews say this seems weird and here's why, but maybe you've explained that. The bad reviews mark you down for not explaining something in granular detail, even though you had probably done so in a previous chapter.
Yes, this does make it hard to review chapters, but that's what you're doing so just make the best of it - try to be helpful with things like does a conversation flow, or does it feel like the author is info dumping to set up a plot point? Do physical actions during a chapter make sense, or are you confused and re-reading sentences trying to understand who's standing or walking or moving to where?
Wish I had taken Awemuse's advice on letting a review rating sit overnight. Anyone know how to change a rating I've already given a reviewer? Thanks,
I have just given 4 reviews to people. I am having a serious problem with reviewing people. Firstly - the number picking bit is annoying, as quite often the little phrase that goes under the numbers is nothing like I am feeling about the writing I'm reading. Secondly - find it really hard to review someone when I write rarely and occasionally myself - just for fun and therefore have no concept of how and when something is 'good/bad' writing (other than my gut reaction of I love/hate it). I keep getting bad review scores, despite trying to be honest. I have serious trouble when something I have read is awful and I try not to be harsh, but end up getting a rubbish review score anyway!
To Hotspot46: Reviewfuse helps writers to hone the craft of writing and come together as a community of writers--and hopefully lead to publication (At least that's how I see it). The motivation to submit here is specific for each individual. The system pairs you with your peers, which depends on your ability to connect with them or piss them off with your words. Being sincere and constructive helps others and yourself, while being rude and demeaning drives people away. You never know how you will be received until you get that feedback.
To Skipstone: Rerate a reviewer, I don't know. Maybe a blood sacrfice will appease the gods in the machine. There goes your best goat...
I think it's great that people are talking about this. We are all on here to help improve our writing and it doesn't help when people just blow through reviews just so they can see what people say about their work. I actually received a very rude and hurtful review for the lastest piece that I posted. I gave the reviewer a low score and told him/her that I was giving him/her a low score because she/he was rude and didn't offer any advice.
Whereas, for the same piece I had a reviewer who was hard but fair.
I think we can all appreciate what a tedious task writing can be so it's great that there are actually people who are on here who want to help!
JonCallot - I understand why people use this site and I try to apply this. I have just received an amazingly thorough review of one of my poems from someone. It was constructuve and offered lots of tips, which was brilliant. This is because they know what they are talking about though. I cannot claim to have any idea of how the mechanics of a poem come about. I just write things so that they sound fluid when I read them back and hope for the best! This means that I find it very hard to give a constructive review if I know there are definite flaws or weaknesses in the work, but have no idea how to rectify them!
hotspot46, it's not your responsibility to rectify issues with other people's works - you're not taking over their work and re-writting it. You're giving them feedback so that they know what to change.
Does the dialog seem awkwardly or inappropriate?
Is there a plot hole?
An unexplained inconsistency or incongruity?
Are you confused by any of the sentences or actions?
You don't have to make the sentences less confusing or fix the plot holes or dialog, you just need to point out what you feel is wrong with it.
The only thing is, DO NOT just say something like the dialog is awkward in the score box. That's not useful. Use the in-line feature to point out the issue by saying things like:
this person is supposed to be a hillbilly with a thick accent, but they are speaking perfect English.
The more inline comments you do that aren't grammar or spelling, the better.
I am also new to this site, and I definitely understand why you're frustrated. I haven't posted anything or done a review yet, but I would certainly be a bit upset if the reviews I earn are wasted by people giving me one-sentence reviews. I am very thorough with my responses to things, so you can expect that if I review your work, it will be substantial. This is always the case in my college classes. I always put a lot more effort into what I say to people in response to their work than people seem to put into what they say to me. I also try to be careful about wording; I'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings and be discouraging, so I try to be considerate of such things.