Clean Contents Policy Question
Tags: features, newbie,Clean Contents

Hello,

i've just joined and was looking around when I cam across the clean contents policy. I can't believe you're serious. I don't wish to write for children, thanks all the same. Why does everyone have to adhere to the standards of a 13 year old child?

If I want to write dialogue the way people speak (with swearing) or about subjects that affect people (like sex) that isn't considered suitable material? So James Joyce, Kurt Vonnegut, Chuck Palahniuk, Stephen King, none of them would be allowed to post work here?

Clearly all you need to do is have a system where you can state a guidance rating for your piece before submitting, and somewhere in your profile state what level you're prepared to review. So R ratings are only read by people who are willing to read that kind of thing.

Otherwise what kind of site are you trying to set up? Writing with restrictions?

Have I misunderstood the policy? If so please let me know.

I have to agree with you.For insyance mama q objects to anything remotly sexual or swearing which is ridicouls. Sometimes life is sexual and involves profanities.In any case her comments coming from a country which condones carrying guns as legitimate behavious is hypocritical

Agreed. I've run across this dreaded mamaq beast and it's pretty much put me off this site forever. I heartily recommend that review fuse develop a grown up's corner.

Since you brought me up openly Mike 46--let me clarify for you that I don't object to everything sexual and yes, I have an aversion to profanity--mostly because pretty much w/o exception --and there have been a couple-- every profanity I have run across in a story has been pretty much unnecessary. There are some great writer's on RF who feel compelled to have a few profanities that personally I think would read better w/o them. That is no different than the people who insist that all adverbs are bad or all tags. It's a style preference. I happen to think that creative swearing--especially if your character is from another planet, is more creative and shows more imagination that using vulgar ones on this one. (and what does a country that permits legal weapons have to do w/ my dislike of profanity?)

And for the record--several people who I suggested they lose the few profanities thy had wrote me back and said "thanks--I like it better w/o as well." One lady from overseas said she thought she HAD to add it because that's how she sees Americans speak on TV. That is a sad commentary on our media. Like anything else in a review--it's an opinion. Use what you like and disregard the rest. Real grown ups are okay with people who speak w/o profanity as well as those who do.

I'm also curious as to why grown up equals profanity or promiscuity--I know plenty of people who conduct honorable lives w/o them. At any rate --if you have an issue w/ me--take it up with me--not in a public forum. You can reach me at the end of a crit you did for me or I did for you. And Bradlayp--there is a difference between sexuality and pornography. It would be nice if we could opt out of certain genres--but in your case Bradlayp--I gave 29 in-line comments to help strengthen your piece that had nothing to do with your subject matter. If you ran it by other people on this site--I know other people would point those things out--because they got pointed it out in mine when I first submitted stuff and occasionally still do. You can choose to be bitter or grow as a writer. You are new here--I'm sorry you feel so put off my my not liking written pornography--but do look at the inline comments before you continue to disparage me. Take care! :)

You ask what carrryimg of guns has do with anything. Your country condones the csrrying of weapons and then throws its hands up in horror whne a mass shooting occurs.This is profanity in its own right.Get this. Life can be a dirty business and cant aleways be pretty. As has already been said.Join the grown up world

But why are you attributing that TO ME? You don't even know my personal feelings about guns. One thing has nothing to do with the other. This country promotes equal opportunity for anyone who works hard and has a dream to achieve it--if you are going to attribute something random to me--attribute that. :)

"Burn this and write something worth reading." Is an exceptionally unacceptable comment in a workshop environment. You should be ashamed of yourself.

This is a clean contents policy discussion and although the first writer of this discussion doesn't write for kids, some of us do. And on the flip side, are you aware that there is an age category for kids 13-17 on this site? I didn't really realize that until recently. So like any rules, instead of breaking what you don't like--change them or fix them. And if you want to write very risque stuff--and apparently there are a few who do--then rate it as such and have a special group of people review that. We can all live here peacefully. Just don't tag it as one thing and show it as something else.

mike46, dude you're from pakistan were they use bombs on a normal basis, stay on topic- I'm quite certain no one on this site can out swear me, and if i chose i can write pornography that'll make you blush (but on proper sites) probably review in the top 10% maybe 5%, any and all want my reviews, request me- but you're not giving others the benefit of being helpful despite disliking the language, take it for what it is, fix what needs fix and move on- for recreation I don't read most of the genres i review, but i take each piece of work as a story and review it as such, never grading it with my personal opinion on rather or not i'd buy the book- if you've noticed i've had issues of folks not liking my story and giving it a 3 with no corrections, but that's another issue-

let's put it in context, if a reviewer had issue with you using 'know what i mean' every sentence, and suggested a lot of them could be reworded would this be an issue?

Be honest-

Leave mamaq alone. She's somebody's mama...probably Q's. And you don't want to mess with Q, so says Kirk.

Why thank you very much! Maxkeanu--:)

Actually--Q is more Capt. Picard's nemesis--but thanks for the vote. :)

MamaQ was actually right in her reviews to me about dialing down the profanity a notch. I work for a government contractor, soldiers are present - and soldiers have nonstop, 24-hour-a-day, make-Howard-Stern-cry toilet mouth. I guess hearing that all day every day permeated my writing (lol) and my story actually does read better with some of it removed. Sometimes it really is a valid criticism (unless you're writing a story about soldiers, in which case I don't think any amount of profanity could ever accurately capture their speaking style).

Anyway. I'm guessing the reason the kidlet-friendly policy exists is because a filtered/rated system would be a pain in the butt to code, slow down reviews, and this is a free site. It's not ideal - Mooderino's right that most mainstream published authors write things that are unsuitable for the kidlets and it's pretty limiting to have to keep things on that level of safety. But this site is free, so it is what it is. The best solution is probably just to edit your submissions some to be "safe" for the site if you write grittier, more adult stuff (Remember Levana? She was the queen of this), or to let submissions that make you uncomfortable time out if you're a kidlet/someone who just doesn't care to read that stuff. Sometimes adult content IS necessary to tell a story, but sometimes it actually isn't, and if you're someone who just doesn't care to read it at all, hey. Your choice.

Thanks Danger Puppy! I would like to point out that I know tons of soldiers, sailors and airmen, who DON'T use profanity--although they are in the minority--they do exist. :) Another thought--when writing--why write to the basest element--and I am NOT saying that all people who swear are awful people--because that ISN'T true. I have lots of friends who swear, but does it need to be in our written life as well?

And I know you authors who have your characters fighting mafia and demons are going to have characters who swear--but some of the authors on RF have hysterically funny stuff and the humor gets lots in the profanity for me. Some of those authors have written me back and said after they took a second look, they liked it better with at least less if not none. So in those cases, my opinion was helpful. I used to write with a lot of adverbs--I don't as much--but one person said ALL adverbs are bad, another said one to two per page tops. Other people don't comment on adverbs at all. Since there are a lot of adverb Nazis on this site--and I say this lovingly :) --I really look at every adverb I write and think about whether it is necessary or not. Most of the time I remove it--on occasion I think it's appropriate to keep. Again--it's all subjective.

But 'grittier stuff'--and out right pornographic stuff--needs it's own corner. In Levana's defense--I loved her "In each Other's Shoes" and gave her a lot of 10's (9 in dialog) because I thought it was well written. It wasn't pornographic--but the sexual tension was there. As I told her--I'm an unapologetic prude--but I can still appreciate great writing. :)I mention this outright, because her story is in the public forum. I try to review each story on it's own merit. There's a lot of genres I wouldn't choose to read for pleasure--but because I am on RF- I read it because I have to and I find that I like it better than I thought. Historical fiction for example--Sallybrice made that come alive for me.

I don't hate vampire stories--but I don't go looking for them either--but there are 2 AMAZING vampire stories on here as well.

So I am open to the 'take what you get policy', but would like the option to pass on pieces with gratuitous violence, language, and sexuality--especially when it is perverted or pornographic--maybe those authors could tag it as such and there be a filter for those tags so it isn't given to the general public--ESPECIALLY the youngest members of our site.

If there are too many tags then Danger Puppy is probably right about that slowing down reviews. I'm not opposed to reading something with a little profanity--when it's drowning in it--maybe the author ought to consider their end audience. Some people write nasty stuff just for the shock value of it--there are sites dedicated for that--this one isn't. Take your stuff to where it will be appreciated. You have that right. :)

let's go at this a different direction- i did

i too was told by some one... okay starts with a 'm' ends with a 'q' that i write too well to use so much profanity. she said since it was fantasy why not create swear words for each character. I let it go in one ear, out the other ear, i wasn't forcing anyone to read it and if sold i ain't gonna force any buying... actually, i got some relatives i might force to buy it, cuz they told me i couldn't do it. So, apparently it didn't all go out the other ear-

anyway, i've a mountain of rejections, and i know it basically is a good story, and in my rejection form letters, quite a few written saying the story is great, wonderful writing but not for us at this time (no shit, i got 5 of them, which anything more than a form letter is a win in my book) but i noticed one thing, about 90% are women, and just a rough guess but i'd put it at 40% of them might be christian-

so, i re-wrote what i like to call my swear-lite version, there is still a few choice words in dramatic context, but i've probably cut out 95%- bottom line, why cut your nose off to spite your face- my thing is selling the first, then you got more control after that-

someone mentioned now famous authors- ask any of them, they had to write mainstream first, then get more into what they truly wanted to write- hunter s thompson wrote for the rolling stones you seriously can't think he was never censored-

so, i want a f***** check over a f****** story

I would recommend a bit more humility from a bunch of unpublished, unaccomplished writers. 'Write for as mainstream an audience as possible' is just a weak, lazy philosophy.

writing for a mainstream audience is a way to get published, writing crap and not wanting to budge on anything don't feed the bulldog- ask stephen king why he did the remake of salem's lot- cuz he sold out for the hollywood money, didn't like anything about the new story, but loved all those zeros on the check- some of the movies based on his stories he refused to be listed in the credits, but he had no trouble cashing the checks.

so you stick to your need to be overly gross and vulgar, but better keep your day job

In context with the original poster, I don't think the clean contents policy means we have to write for children. I have submitted pieces with swearing and violence, and the pieces have not been removed. Even so, they've seen critiques just fine.

I don't know why MamaQ is getting so much heat. She said the same to me regarding profanity in my chapters, and while I disagree, I did take her advice and removed some of it.

It is important to distinguish profanity used as a character trait, and profanity used as sloppy/lazy dialogue.

As for writing to get published, it is my belief that if you write to get published, you won't get published. But if you write to make the best story you can make, then you might get published. Now I haven't submitted my works for publishing, because they aren't ready, but even if none were accepted, I could live with it knowing that it's my story. Besides, you don't have to find a publishing house to be published, as if being published is the final goal.

Those are just my thoughts on this issue.

notagreat site--welcome to the family! Like all families, we have our ups and downs and our cranks and clowns :) (hey--I didn't mean to be a poet! :) ) I'm not sure how I became the Profanity Police --but it's nice to see that I wasn't left to twist in the wind. :) Thanks guys--Like one of my characters told his niece: It's one thing for me to pick on your dad, it's quite another for someone else to do it. :) So Wizardwriter, MaxKeanu, Dirge87, and Danger Puppy,--thanks from your 'sister' writer. :)

Which brings me to the most important point: we are all here because we are passionate about our craft. We don't share a last name, or even the same genre--but we share a purpose. Writing is a passion that non-writer's don't understand.

To that end--we all make compromises--the clean contents policy is a big one. I read stuff I'd rather not read at least parts of it and some of you don't get to use all the expletives you want to--how does that hurt anybody, really?

We are a family of writer's and we have young members--we should look out for them and if enough people want to write excessively nasty stuff--they should get a space to do it that those of us who don't want to read it don't have to or find another site.

God, I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with MamaQ. The world is a scary place; home by ten, windows locked, landing light on, terror everywhere, economy near crashed on life as we know it, such volatile weather, mind the red flag and pledge allegiance.